Ecoflash Reichweite 20km nach 3000km und kein GEWÄHRLEISTUN

[poupou]

Hello to all,

(Sorry for english, i just arrive in germany... a google translation is available by scrolling down)

I bought last year an electro roller eco flash 2000. I was really satisfied of this roller in terms of comfort and quality. Unfortunately, today, i can not reach more than 20 km with one load whereas in the past i could easily reach 40km...my main concern is that the roller was bought new, and this problem appear after 3000km. We have taken care to reload the batteries after each use to avoid deep discharge. In other words, the batteries were reloaded every 20km (distance home/work done more of less everyday). My main concern is that today, i am not even sure to go to work with the roller...I have to take my car...The scooter stay in a garage during the night and the charger is put in a dry area.
As far as i can see, the prices to change these batteries is around 500€...short calculation: 500/3000*100=16,7€/ 100 kilometers!!! More or less 3 times more than a car or a thermic roller (even including reparation...)

I have checked on internet what is a normal lifetime for such batteries. It is said that they can be reloaded from 400 to 500 times (deep discharge), which give us a lifetime of 400*40=16 000km...even 10 000 would be acceptable, that is 10 000/40 = 250 reloads...but here the batteries failed after less than 180 reloads.

Now, i've contacted the customer service from Flex tech...No chance to get any warranty (warranty is only 6 months on battery), nor cost reduction on the batterie pack...and the customer service is imbelievably unpleasant...
For example, here is their answer to see if they can make any "commercial" gesture: "No Chance!" without anything else...

So now, i come to the point:
I still believe that elektroroller is a very good alternative for urban transport (as long as you can reload it...), but i definitvly not recomand flex tech and its eco flash. I hope that this message will be largely spread, because they are killing the concept of a green displacement...after,as i have not other experience in elektro roller, i could not say if such technology is enough reliable...I will paid for a new battery pack...but not to save money but to move greener.

Do not hesitate to contact me if you need additional information for the use, the maintenance or anything else...

Sincerly green

poupou


Hallo an alle,

Ich kaufte im vergangenen Jahr ein elektro Walze eco-Flash 2000. Ich war wirklich von dieser Rolle im Hinblick auf Komfort und Qualität zufrieden. Leider heute, kann ich nicht erreichen mehr als 20 km mit einer Ladung während in der Vergangenheit konnte ich erreichen 40km ... Mein Hauptanliegen ist, dass die Rolle wurde neu gekauft, und dieses Problem scheint nach 3000km. Wir haben darauf geachtet, die Akkus nach jedem Gebrauch neu laden, um Tiefentladung zu vermeiden. Mit anderen Worten waren die Batterien alle 20km (Abstand home / mehr oder weniger alltäglichen Arbeit getan) geladen. Meine größte Sorge ist, dass heute, ich bin nicht einmal sicher zu gehen, um mit der Rolle der Arbeit ... Ich habe zu meinem Auto zu nehmen ... Der Roller in einer Garage bleiben während der Nacht und das Ladegerät ist in einem trockenen Raum stellen.
Soweit ich sehen kann, die Preise für diese Batterien zu wechseln ist ca. 500 € ... kurze Berechnung: 500 / 3000 * 100 = 16,7 € / 100 km! Mehr oder weniger als 3 mal mehr als ein Auto oder eine thermische Walze (sogar einschließlich Wiedergutmachung ...)

Ich habe im Internet überprüft, was ist eine normale Lebensdauer solcher Batterien. Es wird gesagt, dass sie 400 bis 500 mal (Tiefentladung), die uns ein Leben lang von 400 * 40 = 16 000km ... sogar 10 000 wäre akzeptabel, das ist 10 000/40 = 250 Reloads können nachgeladen werden. .. aber hier die Batterien nach weniger als 180 lädt gescheitert.

Jetzt habe ich den Kundenservice von Flex tech ... Keine Chance, dass die Garantie erhalten, kontaktiert (Garantie ist nur 6 Monate auf Akku), noch Kostenreduzierung auf der Batterie-Pack ... und der Kundenservice ist imbelievably unangenehm .. .
Zum Beispiel, hier ist ihre Antwort, um zu sehen ob sie irgendwelche "commercial" Geste machen können: "Keine Chance" ohne etwas anderes ...

So, jetzt habe ich an den Punkt kommen:
Ich glaube immer noch, dass Elektroroller ist eine sehr gute Alternative für den städtischen Nahverkehr (solange man es reload ...), aber ich definitvly nicht recomand Flex-Tech und seine Öko-Flash. Ich hoffe, dass diese Meldung weitgehend verteilen werden, weil sie das Töten mit dem Begriff des grünen Verschiebung sind ... nach, wie ich keine anderen Erfahrungen im Elektro Roller, ich könnte nicht sagen, ob diese Technologie genug zuverlässig ist ... Ich werde bezahlt für einen neuen Akku ... aber nicht um Geld zu sparen, sondern grüner bewegen.

Zögern Sie nicht mich zu kontaktieren, wenn Sie zusätzliche Informationen für den Gebrauch, die Wartung oder irgendetwas anderes brauchen ...

Hochachtungsvoll grün

poupou
poupou

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[tom]

Well, to some degree it's a general problem of batteries and their warranty.
Nearly no manufacturer will give more than 6 months warranty on their batteries. No great problem if it's only a cheap starter battery, because they usually last 5+ years - and €30 if not.
Some e-scooter manufacturers will give 24 months warranty on their traction batteries. But that's already at the high priced end.

Flextech is well known for beeing cheap. Cheap to buy, but also tawdry in quality, service and goodwill.
"Geiz ist geil" - "meaness is cool".

[peon2t]

Sorry to hear your story but it's not really surprising.
Lead batteries are known for their short lifespan. Here in the forums it's said that frequent users will have to replace them every one or two years. 500 cycles is probably what the vendor says.
Lithium batteries should live longer when using a suitable battery managment system but they're expensive. As far as I know with some vendors you even can get 2 years warranty on Lithium batteries.
I think it's an illusion to believe that driving with electricity is cheaper than driving with fuel at the present day. Maybe it will change in the future.

[Joehannes]

Hallo Poupou.
Eisenach ist leider zu weit weg von Coburg, sonst könnte ich Dir helfen.
Aber Garantie für Akkus nur 6 Monate dran kann ich mich im Kleingedruckten
von Tchibo erinnern. Ist hat leider so. Sicherlich haben die Akkus bereits vorher
etwas zu lange ungeladen gelagert. Schwer halt jetzt jemanden die Schuld zu geben.
Die Kosten für neue Akkus kann man sicherlich reduzieren aber es ist trotzdem noch eine
nötige Arbeit dazu.

MFG
Joehannes

[STW]

Sorry that I must tell you that a life of 3000km is normal. There are a few scooter drivers that made 7500km with their batteries, but their invest in a charger had a price similar to one or two sets of lead acid batteries. My first set of batteries were dead within 1900km.

Battery manufactorers claim to have 300 (or 400) cycles, and with deep cycle they mean 60%. Their data sheets are beeing produced in a "clean environment", low discharge rate, only one battery, air conditioning, best charger available, ...
In a scooter you don't have this ideal situation. You have 24 cells, and if only one cell drifts a little bit (means: out of normal specs), all other cells will be affected during each charge cycle.

It is a bad situation that the (I should say: "all") scooter manufactorers and the dealers use the data sheet informations - they are ok for one 12V battery in an ideal environment, but not within a scooter.

There are two or three possibilities:
- every year you have to buy new batteries for 500€ (or 400€, if you get a cheaper set)
- you sell the scooter and buy a good (!) gasoline scooter. Don't buy a cheap scooter, because during the first year you have 3 or more inspections (each at up to 180€) to keep your warranty
- buy a set of lithium batteries. This is a high investment, just calculate 3 times the cost of lead acid batteries, and there is a risc that during the first month 10% up to 20% of the cells might have a problem, hopefully under warranty. A conversion like that should be discussed with the battery vendor (is the charger ok, do you have to implement a battery management system, ...) to be shure that warranty will be given. At the moment I am pretty shure that LiFePo4-cells will last 3 years or longer, but there is a risc that the might die earlier.

[rollmops]

Hi poupou,
you can buy compatible Akkus 4x Multipower MP50-12C = 360,- Euro.
http://www.akkuonline.de/product_info.p ... DgodAGb1Ng

Purchase better in the spring 2011

best regards

[gervais]

in the past i could easily reach 40km..

If you are planning to use your next set of your 40Ah lead acids regulary 40kms or more, I doubt you´ll find some, which do last longer than the Greensavers did. If you intend to go more than 30kms regulary, you should switch to Li or Nicads (e.g. Saft, but they do need maintance and some experience you ain´t got).

Conclusion: You need to learn about lead batteries. I strongly recommend STWs comments on this issue. There are some english forums too, where you can learn about real ranges, capacity , lifetime which usually differs from sellers ads and producers specs. 3 l : less range, less capacity and less lifetime.....

@Tom: Which scooter producer does give an 24months warranty for buildt in lead acids ? Furthermore I would like to know, which batteries in the 40Ah size do better than the Greensavers ? Link with datasheet, please .

[tom]

@Tom: Which scooter producer does give an 24months warranty for buildt in lead acids ?

I don't know. Please tell me.
I didn't say lead acids. I.E. the Vectrix has 24 months warranty (battery included, but that's NiMH).

[gervais]

And that is the point. There is no 45km/h Scooter with lead acids warrantied 24 months.

Even the former Peugeot, with its long lasting Saft did not offer more than 12 months.

So it does not help to buy expensive....No better 45km/h scooter for even twice the price, they are all the same*.......

and there are no better lead batteries fitting in these scooters . My favorites, Optima YT and the open Trojan do not offer app. sizes....

Multipower and Co stay lottery, being abused by uninformed max range users, like the poor poupou.

Btw. , the motorbike scooter Vectrix is a very good example, what happens with warranty after insolvency. They had their poupous too.

* I bet, there is a TW scooter owner, who does not think so

[tom]

....No better 45km/h scooter for even twice the price, they are all the same*.......
...
* I bet, there is a TW scooter owner, who does not think so

Yepp! Kymco scooters (with internal combustion engine).

BTT: The E-Ton E-Mo scooter (L1e 45kph class) has 2 years warranty even on his (LiMn) Batteries. But a very spartan scooter.